Marriage


Ad: Buy Girls Und Panzer Merch from Play Asia!

monsta666

-the bee's knees
Staff member
Fansub TV Team
Marriage the union of two individuals. People get married for a variety of reasons be it love, economic, social or even to obtain citizenship. But what is the most important factor in getting married? Is marriage even needed to strengthen a relationship? After all if a couple share the same household is a marriage even needed?

Should we limit marriage to man and woman or should same sex marriages also be allowed? If people love each other enough can incestuous marriages even be considered?
 
In before "There is no need for marriage contract to prove love"
mad.gif


[IMO] Marriage should mostly be seen as declaration of love. Everything else is just a bonus and shouldn't really be the main reason, to do so would just be disrespecting the whole ritual.

There's definitely a psychological thing with how labels can affect mentality and behaviour. Marriage sets up expectations that can strenghten the bond or cause the relationship to fall apart. Even if two people had been engaged or cohabitating for a long time.

QUOTE
Should we limit marriage to man and woman or should same sex marriages also be allowed? If people love each other enough can incestuous marriages even be considered?

Marriage in church is mostly a religious thing, but I don't see why marriage itself is specifically given to religion.

Love is the most important thing but it'd cause so much social outcry that it's probably a bad idea to push for such union..... such is life.
 
Put love aside. What marriage does is establish that someone is officially a spouse and has special rights including inheritance and medical decisions. I remember a friend of my mother-law that dated a man for fifteen years then he died and his family took everything. If you aren't married, the family can even keep you from visiting your hospitalized partner.

As for gays getting married, they should have it just as rough as us heterosexuals. If a gay decides that he or she decides that another person is a good choice for a spouse that gay should have the ability to share life with and have someone designated for those special rights that you would only give someone very special.

Gays should be required to take a test before marriage though. They must be able to breathe with or without mechanical assistance and be able to fill out all the paperwork with the same level of help given to heterosexuals. Some of those forms are tough.

I don't pay attention to religious arguments because of the high incidence of clergy raping children. I will take the right for gays to marry over the right for clergy to rape kids any day. Duh.

My wife and I (heterosexuals) were married in a state park by a judge and spent very little money because we were both students. We also kept the ceremony under a minute then went right to the reception because my father in law was dying. Pick the partner and style that is right and enjoy it.

Also, there are only two words to say to a gay that joins the military to protect my kids: "Thank you". Don't ask, Don't tell is stupid stupid stupid. My best friend was in the Marines and he said that it was a shame that they had to keep it a secret because his friends that were gay were perfect Marines.
 
Wow, I think I'm going to sound pretty boring about this one.

QUOTE But what is the most important factor in getting married?
Mutual desire.

QUOTE Is marriage even needed to strengthen a relationship?
lol, I've heard it does just the opposite.
tongue.gif
If anything, it just gives a couple a bit more motivation to stick together through the hard times.

QUOTE After all if a couple share the same household is a marriage even needed?
It's definitely not necessary. I know a couple that's been together 4 years, and lived together for 2. They're perfectly happy.

QUOTE Should we limit marriage to man and woman or should same sex marriages also be allowed?
With marriage comes rights, and with them, a need to offer those rights to every one, regardless of sex, race, sexual orientation, or even hairstyle. I can't think of a single justifiable reason why gay marriage shouldn't be allowed, and quite frankly, I don't this such a reason exists.

QUOTE If people love each other enough can incestuous marriages even be considered?
lol, I'm not even gonna touch that one! We all know what happened to the last discussion about incest.
tongue.gif


I may sound like a terrible person for saying this, but I don't believe that marriage is the greatest thing in the known world, although it does make a nice mental glue for people to stick together.

...but speaking of marriage, what do you all think of polygamy? (having multiple spouses) The whole idea sounds awfully unnatural to me, but I don't see any overt reasons as to why it's illegal. (but then again, I'm not a professional on the subject... even though I live in utah
tongue.gif
)
 
This might sound jaded, but marriage is not, imo, "a union of two individuals" or even about love. It's only really been in the past 300 years that this whole concept of marriage began to emerge. Historically, marriage was the contract to help families get status/money and to find someone to support the daughters. I don't think these goals have ever really left marriage on a whole. Yes, now most people won't marry unless there is that element of love (family doesn't pick our partners for us any more) but most people still marry at the same (or better) social level.

That's not to say the "true love" marriages won't work. The option has opened up that either case can happen. I just think that marriage is still largely related to the social/economic factors when you really look at it. I mean, that's a large argument for allowing gay marriage (benefits). Or, couples who choose not to marry and then run into problems when the spouse dies and they're left with nothing. No matter how much you love the person, the marriage's paperwork is needed for the economic benefits.

But in the end, it comes down to what the couple wants. There are some couples who have been together 10 years and are perfectly fine without marriage. In the end, it's really just paperwork and a fancy ceremony; I don't think it has anything to do with how much you love the other person.

Different things work for different people. And now that divorce is a relatively easy process (as opposed to the days when it wasn't allowed, women couldn't divorce, etc) it allows people an "out" when things don't work - and that happens quite frequently, which I think points to marriage as not a "be all, end all" for couples. Where's that leap of faith when some additional paperwork can get you out of it?
 
QUOTE (EggBeast @ Jul 22 2008, 01:55 AM)Mutual desire.

QUOTE (chiisai_hana @ Jul 22 2008, 05:11 PM)This might sound jaded, but marriage is not, imo, "a union of two individuals" or even about love. It's only really been in the past 300 years that this whole concept of marriage began to emerge.
Ultimately a marriage is contract between two individuals so it is a union of two people. But I agree marriage wasn't always about love. The war of the roses was a civil war in England in the 15th century. It ended when the two feuding families decided to marry each other (the house of York and Lancaster). So marriage isn't always done for the mutual desire of the individuals. Clearly this was a case of both families (even country) benefiting from this arrangement. This is often the reasoning behind arranged marriages.


QUOTE (Eggbeast)lol, I've heard it does just the opposite.
tongue.gif
If anything, it just gives a couple a bit more motivation to stick together through the hard times.
Since people are under contract (yes I'm not very romantic) they are under more obligation to stick with one another (married couples lose more when they break up than unmarried couples). If people are more willing to stick with each other through the thick and thin then their relationship is likely to grow. Also marriage shows faith that you are willing to stick with the person for the rest of your life.


QUOTE (Eggbeast)I can't think of a single justifiable reason why gay marriage shouldn't be allowed, and quite frankly, I don't this such a reason exists.
In many religons marriage is supposed to be between man and woman. Also a big part of marriage is to have children. As many religons forbid sex outside marriage then we see why marriage between man and woman maybe important. Off course not everyone marries to have children but their should always be that option. Or so the argument holds.


QUOTE (Eggbeast)lol, I'm not even gonna touch that one! We all know what happened to the last discussion about incest.
tongue.gif

Originally the incest thread was going to be included in the marriage thread.
wink.gif
If we talk about incest in the context of marriage we avoid all the exploitive issues surrounding incest.
 
QUOTE (snorky2k @ Jul 21 2008, 07:26 PM)Gays should be required to take a test before marriage though.  They must be able to breathe with or without mechanical assistance and be able to fill out all the paperwork with the same level of help given to heterosexuals.  Some of those forms are tough.*pffft* Agreed!


QUOTE (chiisai_hana @ Jul 22 2008, 11:11 AM)This might sound jaded, but marriage is not, imo, "a union of two individuals" or even about love. It's only really been in the past 300 years that this whole concept of marriage began to emerge. Historically, marriage was the contract to help families get status/money and to find someone to support the daughters.I was sort of under the impression that marriage arose as a means of "proving" lineage, as in, of course it's obvious who the mother of any given child is, but the father (who could be anyone) needs to be "established" as the mate of the mother. But I could, of course, be wrong. Or it could (more than likely) be a combination of factors.

Random aside: As someone who has no interest in getting married *shudders to think*, when do I get back all that money I've been forking out in the form of wedding/shower gifts to my married friends (most of whom lived together beforehand and had absolutely no need for household items, etc.). Can I have a "not-ever-gonna-be-a-bridal" shower to recoup my losses? Cash only, please.
laugh.gif
 
To be honest, marriage is not important at all, simple answer is, if it makes you happy do it. Well most marriages fail anyway.( I wont be happy till Richard and Judy get a divorce.)

Again same sex marriage, the only reason gay people want same sex marriages is to make being gay maintstream and for that reason government tries to stop it. So to me, people are just playing politics with it so i dont have a definitive answer.

Most important factor in a marriage must be commitment. I doubt its love or trust. If i was in a 15 year relationship and was not married and the girl pissed me off one day, i could just leave at anytime not having to see her again because your not locked in on a social contract. However if your married and it breakdowns, your kind off obliged to make it work because of the contract, property and other stuff. Mind you if you have kids, thats just as contractially binding as marriage.

If this sounds pesimistic or too logical, it's because i have a history of bad relationships. One could say to answer this topic "true love" but i don't believe that exists so meh.
 
QUOTE (franzoir @ Jul 23 2008, 09:48 AM) To be honest, marriage is not important at all, simple answer is, if it makes you happy do it. Well most marriages fail anyway.( I wont be happy till Richard and Judy get a divorce.)

Most important factor in a marriage must be commitment. I doubt its love or trust. If i was in a 15 year relationship and was not married and the girl pissed me off one day, i could just leave at anytime not having to see her again because your not locked in on a social contract. However if your married and it breakdowns, your kind off obliged to make it work because of the contract, property and other stuff. Mind you if you have kids, thats just as contractially binding as marriage.

If this sounds pesimistic or too logical, it's because i have a history of bad relationships. One could say to answer this topic "true love" but i don't believe that exists so meh.
mad.gif
Shoots bullets!

1. Why say marriage is not important when it's a fundamental step in most relationships. It's definitely up there with all the other display of love such as having sex, romantic things and general bonding that is what creates a relationship.

2. Commitment is definitely an important thing for marriage but it's pretty silly to stay with someone you have no trust in. Maybe in a third world country this would make more sense, but we don't live in a third world country.

3. Nobody forces you to stay within a relationship, even when you are married. A horrible analogy but it'd be similar to a job. You can walk out any time, even if you create the fear illusion that this is not allowed. Your responsibility.

4. It's true that marriage might make people work harder on their relationship, but that's not entirely a bad thing. These days we live in a society that leaves on the first sign of trouble. We are a growing society of "Easiest solution" without putting in the effort. Face it, love does take some work.

5. It's definitely pessimistic! True love exists!

You'll find it one day, You just haven't met the right person, blah blah blah blah
laugh.gif


ph34r.gif
 
QUOTE (Sanity Panda @ Jul 23 2008, 01:07 PM)2. Commitment is definitely an important thing for marriage but it's pretty silly to stay with someone you have no trust in. Maybe in a third world country this would make more sense, but we don't live in a third world country.
I'd like to hear an explanation behind the logic in this point. What does first/second/third world country have to do with commitment? There are lots of people in the first world who are stuck in marriages where trust does not exist (situations of abuse/rape being one example) but I'm sure there are many examples of trusting relationships in the third world. Perhaps even more so than here - if they have a greater economic dependence on their spouse, they will put more trust in them.


QUOTE 1. Why say marriage is not important when it's a fundamental step in most relationships. It's definitely up there with all the other display of love such as having sex, romantic things and general bonding that is what creates a relationship.
This opinion is completely subjective. Who says it's a fundamental step? God? Government? There are a lot more important things than marriage. It's what marriage *symbolizes* that is the fundamental step (most notably, trust).



QUOTE (franzoir)Again same sex marriage, the only reason gay people want same sex marriages is to make being gay maintstream and for that reason government tries to stop it.
Actually, this is partly wrong. It's not just to become mainstream. There are economic benefits that are given to spouses, which gay couples are excluded from because they can't legally marry. It can also play a large role in authority, too. Say there are two men in a relationship. They've been together for twenty years, but the family has never approved. The one man gets ill and is put on life support. The decision to take him off life support would probably fall on his family, not his lover, because they're not legally spouses. The family could deny the lover visitation, could make sure he receives no economic benefits after death, etc. So gay marriage is also partly a fight to receive acknowledgment of couple-status and secure a safer future for the partner if something happens.


QUOTE (poonk)I was sort of under the impression that marriage arose as a means of "proving" lineage, as in, of course it's obvious who the mother of any given child is, but the father (who could be anyone) needs to be "established" as the mate of the mother. But I could, of course, be wrong. Or it could (more than likely) be a combination of factors.
It's most likely a combination of factors, which would probably also depend on time & location (values change over time/geography). But I don't think anyone would argue that a main point was to marry the daughter off and get her and her children economic support from the husband's family. Daughters were often a drain on their families because they had to be "sold" to the husbands with some sort of dowry; sons, meanwhile, would bring new wealth into the family when they married and received their wife's dowry.

But I would agree, lineage is probably also an important part of it. I'm just not sure how much.
 
QUOTE (poonk @ Jul 23 2008, 08:11 AM)I was sort of under the impression that marriage arose as a means of "proving" lineage, as in, of course it's obvious who the mother of any given child is, but the father (who could be anyone) needs to be "established" as the mate of the mother.  But I could, of course, be wrong.  Or it could (more than likely) be a combination of factors.
I think there are variety of reasons why marriage came about. Like you said lineage probably played a part but I also think marriage was introduced to encourage monogamy. Marriage generally has religious roots. As sex outside marriage was forbidden it forced people to stick with one person. Another factor is marriage allows people to move up the social ladder. If a daughter marries into the right family they will increase their social status. In certain countries if a man marries into a higher family he changes his surname.


QUOTE (Sanity Panda @ Jul 23 2008, 06:07 PM)1. Why say marriage is not important when it's a fundamental step in most relationships. It's definitely up there with all the other display of love such as having sex, romantic things and general bonding that is what creates a relationship.
Marriage is indeed important but not because it is a fundamental part in building a relationship. A marriage makes a relationship official. It is also done to increase their social standing. Often a married man/woman is more respected than a single man/woman.


QUOTE (chiisai_hana @ Jul 23 2008, 08:23 PM)I'd like to hear an explanation behind the logic in this point. What does first/second/third world country have to do with commitment?
Women are more dependant on men in third world countries. If a woman doesn't trust her husband she can apply for divorce and support herself. In a third world country the women is LESS likely to have a job so is completely depended on the husband. So even if she has no trust they are forced to stay with them. This was often a problem with women in the past when divorce was harder to get and they had no jobs. They were stuck in a marriage with a husband they did not trust. That's not to say this no longer happens simply it happened more in the past.
 
QUOTE
I'd like to hear an explanation behind the logic in this point. What does first/second/third world country have to do with commitment? There are lots of people in the first world who are stuck in marriages where trust does not exist (situations of abuse/rape being one example) but I'm sure there are many examples of trusting relationships in the third world. Perhaps even more so than here - if they have a greater economic dependence on their spouse, they will put more trust in them.

I'm refering to the idea that in a 1st world country where marriage, love and children are seen more as 'extra' lifestyles. Where as in a 3rd world country such as India, children would be seen more as a neccessary resource, daughters married off for financial reasons and such. Monsta explains it much better than I do...

It's unfortunate that these marriages exist. As harsh as this may sound... A person being abused, and raped within their own marriage always has the ability to leave even if it does not seem like a choice due to the amount of fear instilled within them, whether their fear is justify or not, that's not really for me to say.

Easier said than done I know.


QUOTE
This opinion is completely subjective. Who says it's a fundamental step? God? Government? There are a lot more important things than marriage. It's what marriage *symbolizes* that is the fundamental step (most notably, trust).

I purposely wrote "most" in my original statement because it's based on how people view it subjectively, although you may still want to challenge this notion?


QUOTE (monsta666 @ Jul 23 2008, 03:40 PM) Marriage is indeed important but not because it is a fundamental part in building a relationship. A marriage makes a relationship official.
It's definitely becoming less important, especially when people are starting to view it purely as a legal binding contract.

What are the fundamental building blocks to a relationship though..?
 
Okay, I see now where you're coming from on the commitment/trust thing (I was really confused before). Thank you for the clarifications!

QUOTE I also think marriage was introduced to encourage monogamy
Actually, this is a really good point that's probably been overlooked (or, not said clearly enough?). At least in the most recent (Christian?) history this is probably a large factor. It would be interesting to research just how closely linked religion & marriage have been since the beginning of humanity, in different geographical areas, and how perceptions have changed.
 
Well everything that everybody has said is all well and good but i think the key question is whether tradition can stand up to time.

Marriage is a tradition, and with each passing generation comes a different society and a different meaning to marriage, where marriage may be more or less important than it use to be.

Where i live i can definitely say its becoming less important to the point where political parties are offering incentives (tax breaks) to re-establish the institution.

I will admit Marriage is important for the stability of society and as my society ( and i can only comment on my society) is starting to rot in its own liberalism it seems marriage is a relic of the past or people are not taking it as seriously as they did 100 years ago.

I still believe however marriage is not needed but in life you must follow what makes you happy. So if getting married makes you happy increasing your economic status, for a laugh, or maybe even a crazy thing called love, do it. If you feel that you dont need marriage dont do it. Its each indivduals preference and perogative to get married or not. With this final statement i dont see where it can still be debated.
 
QUOTE (Sanity Panda @ Jul 23 2008, 11:17 PM)What are the fundamental building blocks to a relationship though..?
A difficult question. The reasons for people getting together are various but important factors in gaining a strong relationship are sharing common interests/values and looks. Off course people have different priorities on what makes a strong relationship. So I can't really be specific. In any case by the time someone gets married their relationship is already well established. Marriage is not needed to maintain a relationship indeed many people choose not to get married and still have a very strong relationship. So marriage is not a fundamental part in building a strong relationship. You also need to remember that people don't get married purely for love but for economic reasons or to make their relationship official (this has important implications).


QUOTE (franzoir @ Jul 24 2008, 09:44 AM)I will admit Marriage is important for the stability of society and as my society ( and i can onlfy comment on my society) is starting to rot in its own liberalism it seems marriage is a relic of the past or people are not taking it as seriously as they did 100 years ago.
With divorce becoming easier and less stigma attached to getting divorced perhaps people are not as committed to marriages as they were in the past. In the past if a marriage was failing they would probably make a greater effort to set it right than they do today. With less people staying married for long periods of time the value of marriage may not seem as great as it once was.

Another factor that may threaten the institute of marriage are new cohabitation laws. With these new laws people sharing a house gain some of the economic benefits that married couples do. Thus diminishing the benefits of marriage.
 
QUOTE (franzoir @ Jul 23 2008, 10:48 AM)To be honest, marriage is not important at all, simple answer is, if it makes you happy do it. Well most marriages fail anyway.( I wont be happy till Richard and Judy get a divorce.)

So not even true. Im sorry, but there are plenty of people who have had successful marriages. Marriages usually fail because of a lack of communication between the two involved in the partnership.



QUOTE (franzoir @ Jul 23 2008, 10:48 AM)
Most important factor in a marriage must be commitment. I doubt its love or trust. If i was in a 15 year relationship and was not married and the girl pissed me off one day, i could just leave at anytime not having to see her again because your not locked in on a social contract. However if your married and it breakdowns, your kind off obliged to make it work because of the contract, property and other stuff. Mind you if you have kids, thats just as contractially binding as marriage.

Again, Of course IMO... NOT TRUE. Love and trust make up a relationship. Its what hold the marriage together. Commitment is important yes, but a marriage is worthless if there isnt any love. And if your in a 15 year relationship, then buddy, your most likely in love. Otherwise you would have ended it a long time ago. 15 years is a very long time. Marriage cant be looked at as a social contract. Why the hell even get married then?! No document makes a marriage binding. LOVE makes it binding. Im sorry, but looking at marriage as a social contract and binding without there even being any love or trust, really shows how close minded and illogical some peoples thought process are.

Btw this is off topic, and I apologize, but I forgot how to quote. I mean like just quote a certain portion of text, not the entire post with the name being above the post, obviously stating who it is that I'm quoting. I had to quote the entire post and delete what i didn't need. I mean I havent been on the forums in a very long time and forgot how to do alot of things. Again sorry for the little spam message at the end of my post.
biggrin.gif
 
To me Marrige will always be the mutual love between 2 people, not matter what the circumstances. I also know as know as a sensible person that this will not always be the reason. For me I am single, and this looks soo soooooo far off for me that I honestly do not really care who gets married. I have heard the idea that we should let anyone get married ot see how awful it is.
 
Reyoma that would meanthat I wa sdoomed from the start in my last relationship because even though she didn;t like to admit , my wife did actually admit that 95% of the time I WAS right lol
I concur though that a good marriage should be about 2 people wanting to spend their lives together and be a loving and trusting relationship with communication and commitment to making it work.
Ironically the concept of marriage started off as more of a material contract than anything to do with love as it was originally a contract to only sleep with the chosen partner and all belonging that accompanied the bride were sort of insurance thing.
I think the concept has improved dramatically since then although it's a bit sad that it's now reached the point where a lot of people don't take marriage seriously.


MODERATOR'S NOTE (JUNE 12 2009): posts beneath this one were deleted for not complying with the rules of this section. A reminder that you are not posting in the General forum but the Thoughtful Section. Please familiarize yourself with this section's rules. Posts not containing a view backed with support for said view will be deleted.
 
Playasia - Play-Asia.com: Online Shopping for Digital Codes, Video Games, Toys, Music, Electronics & more
Back
Top